Things that could be improved

[LEGION]

Do you mean by frobbing the button while still moving?

 

Anyway, as we talk about sound-disappearance. It´s a Doom3-issue that after a QuickSave a random ambient-sound is erased and won´t come back. It happens only when a lot of sounds are played at the same time. I heard it very often in Doom3, but only one time in TDM so far (recently), that is because TDM-FMs doesn´t use many ambient´s at the moment.

 

But I´m glad to report that the disappearing footstep-sounds I complained about so often a while ago are gone with the actual update!! I noted it shorty after the update, but wanted to be sure before I report and now I tested enough and I am sure, no more disappearing footfalls after AI´s got alerted and <what´s the name for their 'not alerted any more'-state?>! This must be a bug-erase by surprise because there is nothing on the changes-list about this?

[DeTeEff]

When you press the button there is an elevator sound, a metallic swooooooooosh and when the elevator stops it a boschhhhh-metallic sound.

 

But sometimes when the swoosh sound starts to play, it almost instantly stops as if some other sound collides with it...It is specially noteable if you frob the button in a rapid fashion several times after another...

 

Is there any easy way to record a movie so I can show? I'm quite good at imitating sounds with my mouth but it's harder in text

 

As for footsteps, when I run on some surfaces (cannot remember which from the back of my head, and I'm at work now so I cannot play), there is some steps missing. Like clomp, clomp, clomp, ... clomp, ... clomp, clomp, ... clomp, clomp, ... clomp, ... clomp, clomp, ... clomp and so on, an unrhytmical sound as if some steps don't make sounds, or the thief is missing a leg...

 

It feels like I'm alone with these errors

Edited September 4, 2010 by Fieldmedic

[Fidcal]

Try changing the translate_speed on the button from the default 15 to say 500 or 1000 so it flips back after half a second instead of 15ms. Because it is uninterruptable by default that might prevent it getting frobbed twice accidentally.

[LEGION]

You´re not alone with the missing footfalls, at least on stairs and environments like this. But the elevator-thing I did not noticed, I´ll look out for it...

[lost_soul]

How about adding a bit of whistling to the guards' "inactive" activity? In T1/2, the guards always whistle while on patrol and it adds to their character. I always pictured a guard in a Thief-style game whistling "Greenslieves". What are your thoughts on this? Some old-fashioned music really fits well in a Thief universe. For example, see the John Dowland music that was used in "Saturio Returns Home" for T2. It was light guitar music written back in the 1600s.

 

For those who don't know what Greensleeves is:

 

I'm sure you've heard it at some point but may not have known the name.

[Springheel]

Some of the guards do whistle.

[aidakeeley]

Ain't no wimmins to whistle at...

[grayman]

As for footsteps, when I run on some surfaces (cannot remember which from the back of my head, and I'm at work now so I cannot play), there is some steps missing. Like clomp, clomp, clomp, ... clomp, ... clomp, clomp, ... clomp, clomp, ... clomp, ... clomp, clomp, ... clomp and so on, an unrhytmical sound as if some steps don't make sounds, or the thief is missing a leg...

 

 

Going out on a limb here, but I would guess that some of the clomps are left out because the channel playing them is still playing the previous clomp. If you play a sound, then ask it to play again before the first one's finished, the second one won't get played. A third request will probably play, because by then the first one's finished.

 

 

[Sotha]

How about adding a bit of whistling to the guards' "inactive" activity? In T1/2, the guards always whistle while on patrol and it adds to their character. I always pictured a guard in a Thief-style game whistling "Greenslieves". What are your thoughts on this? Some old-fashioned music really fits well in a Thief universe. For example, see the John Dowland music that was used in "Saturio Returns Home" for T2. It was light guitar music written back in the 1600s.

 

For those who don't know what Greensleeves is:

 

I'm sure you've heard it at some point but may not have known the name.

 

In the old thief games I loved particularily the whistling, humming, etc. My personal favourite was the coarse sounding drunken guard singing some kind of waltz.

 

TDM AI don't do this as much as in the old thief games. Yes, some AI's certainly whistle, but not as much as in the other games.

 

If we had infinite resources, there certainly should be more whistling and more singing and humming.

 

However, the problem is that we have limited amount of people working on this stuff. I'm sure no one would complain if someone would create a cool 'hummer' vocal set with lots of whisting and humming. The problem is, that creating a high quality vocal set needs skills not everyone possesses.

[demagogue]

Going out on a limb here, but I would guess that some of the clomps are left out because the channel playing them is still playing the previous clomp.

 

This was my theory as well. It's very familiar to me from the early versions of my ambient sound system when you ran back and forth very quickly between locations ... And it got so annoying that I put in a whole complicated timing thing that wouldn't start a new ambient until it cleared the old channel off properly. But for something like footfalls I can imagine it's a simpler system that works 95% of the time, but you miss a clomp every now and then... Just a guess until we look at the code.

[DeTeEff]

The footfallbug and the elevatorbug may be deriving from the same error. Some kind of collision in the sound channels...I thought of it today when I played St Alban. Sometimes when I press the elevator buttons, the elevator sound just stops and the elevator moves silently...

 

 

 

 

And when we are at it; Sometimes when you fall down on a model (crate or something), there isn't any impact sound. Also if you fall from VERY high, there also isn't any sound. Not so much of a problem though, because you just died

[LEGION]

First I wanted to add this stuff to the Bugtracker, but was thinking again about it so I ask here:

 

1. - When leaning out of cover while behind the pillar and you want to shoot a waterarrow, the bow seems to be out of the pillars range, but still the shot arrow waters the pillar. From what position is the arrow actually spawned? From the player-body or the bow?

 

Also sometimes flares are not extinguished if you shoot them from the side. Aiming more to the wall helps here.

 

2. - While holding objects the lantern can´t be toggled. Not even when you shoulder a body! I think it would be possible for the player-alter-ego to hold the actual object, no matter how big, with one hand and lift with the other hand the hood above the lantern. I wished for that feature very often lately.

[Midnight]

Also sometimes flares are not extinguished if you shoot them from the side. Aiming more to the wall helps here.

Is that a problem? It requires skill to perfectly hit a torch on a wall from the side. I think it's a little more difficult than T1 and T2, but the fact that you can aim at the wall above the torch (or even the ceiling directly above a flame!) balances the difficulty out quite nicely.

 

While holding objects the lantern can´t be toggled.

Have you tried pressing the Lantern toggle key ('L' by default)? I've mapped this to the 'F' key as it's easier to reach and I use the lantern so often. I look forward to a toggle for the Spyglass as I also use this all the time. It's funny, even though there was a zoom feature in T2, I never used it, hardly used the scouting orb either, but the tools in TDM are so easy to use you can't help but take advantage of them.

 

 

 

[Fidcal]

There is already a 'use' toggle for the spyglass. It's the same method as for the lantern (see binds in wiki.) If it's not in the menus then UNinstall your current FM and edit Doomconfig.cfg from the darkmod folder in a plain text editor. You should see, eg:

 

bind "a" "inventory_use Lantern"

 

which means directly use without setting it as selected in the inventory. Likewise you can set:

 

bind "PGDN" "inventory_use Spyglass"

 

I can't recall if either of the above work while shouldering a body though.

[LEGION]

Actually I always use the toggle-key for the lantern, and no, it doesn´t work while holding objects or shouldering bodies.

 

And about the torches: well, I saw the water-splash happening completely at the torch, but it wouldn´t extinguish. Hmm, when I think about it, due to Thief´s issues with torches I have a habit of aiming at the torches and not at the fire itself, I need to adjust my aiming and then I´ll see if it fits or not...

[Baddcog]

Aim at the ceilling above the torch

 

(if your crappy TV can handle that LOL)

[LEGION]

Yeah, my crappy TV can actually handle a lot!!!!!!!!

 

And now that I aim at the fire instead of the torches itself I have no more problems with shooting from the side. So, good thing I asked here instead of adding a new entry to the bugtracker.

[lost_soul]

I too noticed that the player can't toggle the lantern while carrying a body. I suspected this is by design, and not any kind of bug. I mean, it would be pretty hard to carry a body around and fumble with a lantern at the same time... not that I've ever done such things in real life.

[LEGION]

But the lantern is on the players belt, so it would be possible to just lift the hood, me thinks. And hopes.

[New Horizon]

Any of the old hooded lanterns my grand mother owned required two hand for operation. The lantern 'in theory' hangs from the belt...so it wouldn't exactly be practical to reach down and turn it off / on while carrying a body.

[LEGION]

But according to the wiki the lantern is always on, the player just lifts the hood or do I get it wrong?

[LEGION]

I found sth else:

 

Rope-arrows do not stick into earthy ground, while Broadheads do. Ok, it´s not realistic to climb a rope-arrow that sticks in earthy ground without pulling it out, but the Rope-arrow shouldn´t get destroyed. It should fall down when you try to climb the rope.

[New Horizon]

...the player just lifts the hood or do I get it wrong?

 

lol Yes, but lifting the hood requires two hands...unless it's completely different from the hooded lanterns I used as a kid.

 

In any case, we gave players onscreen feedback while carrying a body so they would be aware that both hands were occupied.

[LEGION]

I googled, but still I have no idea how to operate a hooded lantern. I always interpreted 'hood' as some kind of towel or sth like that, that could be lifted by one hand. Guess I was wrong...

 

Another observation:

Helmeted guards don´t produce 'hit metal'-sounds when you try to blackjack them. Also it´s the case for hitting armour on other armoured AI´s. But I guess that already on your lists?

Edited September 17, 2010 by LEGION

[Baddcog]

It's probably more of a slide device, and being fairly primitive it's probably not smooth action, so you pull up on hood and since it's hanging you need the other hand to hold the main lantern down so the hood can slide up it without pulling the lantern itself up.

 

Plus you have 150 lbs over your shoulder (maybe more with armor and boots, etc...) which most people would have a hard time doing with 2 hands in reality. So operating tools while holding the 200 lb body...

 

We should probably just do away with shouldering, it would be more realistic lol.