Is TDM a Game?

[Viktoria]

Serious question... Are you a troll? I mean what you are doing stinks like a troll... coming onto the official Dark Mod forums and stating "I just don't view TDM a game" when it's pretty damn obvious it IS a game.

No, I'm not a troll.

I was already a member here before the discussion relating to the poll.

[SneaksieDave]

What a silly debate. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/game?s=t

 

There is at least one game that exists mainly as rules. There's no unified story or hard ending, and it can go on and on, again and again, repeating in sessions for as long as the players choose. It uses a defined environment and actors that can be digital or physical, bought or made. Millions have played it for more than a thousand years. It's called Chess.

[Airship Ballet]

As was said, I don't think anybody's particularly confused regarding the actual definition of the word. Some were just willfully ignoring it in favor of some confused, abstract meaning of the word for whatever reason.

[Darkness_Falls]

The Merriam-Webster dictionary will need to update their definition of a game if The Dark Mod isn't a game. I will submit feedback to them to have their entry updated if the net result of this discussion ends up being that TDM is not an activity people engage in for pleasure, diversion or amusement...

 

merriam-webster.com

 

game noun \ˈgām\ : a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure

 

1 a (1) : activity engaged in for diversion or amusement

Edited March 21, 2014 by Darkness_Falls

[jtr7]

..............

Edited March 24, 2014 by jtr7

[wesp5]

I know we are talking about single player games here, but just look at multiplayer. I played Counter-Strike for a very short time when it was new, what maps have I played? The whole game is nothing but a few maps played over and over again, still nobody would claim that Counter-Strike isn't a game because it has no campaign and no connection between maps!

Edited March 21, 2014 by wesp5

[Airship Ballet]

I know, we're aware. It's just common sense. It's been said that it's clear as day, just by definition, and the few who insisted it wasn't a game (in a 'no offense but' kind of way) were sticking to it on purpose. Since they couldn't properly back it up, the only other conclusion is that they have a reason for it. I don't know how accurate that is but it barely affects TDM anyway. If it makes them feel better, or lets them keep their jobs, or is genuinely their own opinion, all power to them.

[southquarter22]

merriam-webster.com

 

game noun \ˈgām\ : a physical or mental activity or contest that has rules and that people do for pleasure

 

1. Always use protection.

2. Have fun.

 

Is lovemaking a game?

[Vae]

Is life just a game, and death just the same?

 

Welcome to the forum sq22...

Edited March 22, 2014 by Vae

[HMart]

This discussion is silly and the two intervinientes saying TDM is not a game or for some reason has sold itself not has a game just need to realize they don't know what they are talking about, for example if i say in my opinion the sun is not a star because is bigger and gives heat compared to the other stars, that do not make my opinion true, just makes me an ignorant of scientific facts, in the same vein TDM is a game because we play it, especially me because i don't make fan missions i just play the fantastic work this guys do.

 

And to the ones that matter, as a wise man once said "Ignorant people will drag you to their level and then beat you on their field" enough said, so guys stop this crazy debate and lets continue making TDM the best thief like experience.

[jtr7]

...................

Edited March 24, 2014 by jtr7

[Springheel]

You play FMs. TDM runs a type of FM. TDM is the CD player, and FMs are the tracks.

 

I'm not sure that analogy works very well, but it's equally applicable to any other game you could mention. Every (video) game includes a coding engine and a player interface. You play missions. Thief runs the missions. You play levels. Tetris runs the levels. Etc.

 

In your analogy, TDM is the CD itself, and the FMs are the tracks. The CD player is your computer.

[Skaruts]

It's funny though, that despite all the dissenting opinions the dark mod is the most voted, as of now.

 

I have to wonder though, since the dissenting opinions I've noticed on a cursory look belong to moderators and such, if they aren't letting their own bias take over, or if they aren't falling for a... what should I call it... like not wanting to favor non-EM works too much. I would understand them saying "I don't like TDM, I voted <whatever>", but their insistence that TDM isn't a game seems fishy.

 

And by the way, yes, TDM is a game. Their confusion lies on neglecting the notion that the toolkit is DarkRadiant, not TDM. TDM itself has some development tools, but so do most other moddable games. TDM is the fully fledged engine where the content produced from within the toolkit can be tested and played, much like any Doom/Quake/Source content created from within their respective toolkits can (or any other moddable game for that matter).

Edited March 22, 2014 by Skaruts

[jtr7]

....................

Edited March 24, 2014 by jtr7

[Vae]

The Dark Mod, is a game with a collection of decentralized narrative experiences, that utilize the same gameplay mechanics.

 

Objectively: Centralized Narrative =/= Game

 

Unlike a Story, a game does not need to have one unified narrative, to qualify it as a game.

 

Some games have centralized narratives, while others do not...yet both are games.

 

When you are playing any TDM mission, you are playing the game.

[chedap]

When we play a video game, we don't call it by the name of the engine, but by the one title that unifies the levels/maps within, and when sequels come along, the one title that unifies the series.

TDM isn't an engine though, modified idtech4 is. TDM is that + a set of mechanics and goals + a large asset library + an imaginary universe. Which is more than a lot of things generally referred to as "games" have. I don't get why it's so hard that it needs 10 pages of discussion. Edited March 23, 2014 by chedap

[Flanders]

The Dark Mod's not a game, but it plays FMs, and the flavor of them can be called TDM/The Dark Mod. When we play a video game, we don't call it by the name of the engine, but by the one title that unifies the levels/maps within, and when sequels come along, the one title that unifies the series.

 

It's very simple. TDM has its own missions (2 of them) and the rest is DLC. If anyone is having a hard time recognising this is a game they're making a fool out of himself.

[Airship Ballet]

When it's figured out, maybe the wording of this page should be rewritten:

http://wiki.thedarkm...ng_Fan_Missions

 

At this point I think it's clear you're just after attention, or the reaction to playing Devil's Advocate.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Airship Ballet

[Skaruts]

When it's figured out, maybe the wording of this page should be rewritten:

http://wiki.thedarkm...ng_Fan_Missions

Either it was already reworded or I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

The Dark Mod's not a game, but it plays FMs, and the flavor of them can be called TDM/The Dark Mod. When we play a video game, we don't call it by the name of the engine, but by the one title that unifies the levels/maps within, and when sequels come along, the one title that unifies the series.

This is not more than a semantics discussion, but I'm that much nit-picky to engage in one. Some time ago you might call it a mod, and that would be the correct definition given that it was in fact a mod, as the name implied, as it was dependent on the main game from where it was modded from to be played. The engine is a whole different story, and the devkit part of it was and is part of the project's essence, not part of the resulting product's essence.

 

What is a mod, though? Is is not a game within a game? Or a game built from the parts of another game? Did DotA magically became a game when they reproduced it in Heroes of Newearth, or when Valve reproduced it in DotA 2? Of course not. It was already a game on its own merits. Damn I hate those games.... Anyway, you can blur the definition of "game" all you want, but a game doesn't require much more than a challenge to be accomplished within a set of rules, to be defined as such. I would understand if you were having a dilemma when considering whether something as Dear Ester is a game, but TDM is far from such a concept.

 

Still, even if one is to try to draw a line between mod and game, TDM is a standalone application now. It still has many remnants of its mod status (noticeable in DarkRadiant mostly, the common player will neglect to notice this), but I would assume time will progressively lessen them. The key differences between TDM and say, Half Life 2, currently, are merely that TDM is free to play and that TDM was intended to be a community driven project as opposed to HL2 which was intended to be a fully released closed project driven by a corporate business model, which, in part, explains and justifies why TDM doesn't come with a full gameplay campaign by default (though it comes with a mission or two).

 

I would have to rely on the devs' word to really come to a full conclusion of whether to still call it a mod or not (apart from the name), but that'd still have no bearing on it being a game.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Skaruts

[SeriousToni]

Wow jtr7. I remember the time when I was looking up to you with great respect of all of your knowledge about t the thief universe and looking glass studios. Even the let's players on YouTube were all talking about you.

 

But in the last weeks you were making a complete fool of yourself here on the forums. I think you're getting old and sick. I don't look up to you anymore.

[Vae]

On a brighter note...the poll over at Eidos has TDM leading by a score of 20, to NuThief's 12...

 

 

http://forums.eidosgames.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=3665

Edited March 23, 2014 by Vae

[Goldwell]

On a brighter note...the poll over at Eidos has TDM leading by a score of 20, to NuThief's 12...

 

 

http://forums.eidosgames.com/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=3665

 

Wow I'm surprised they haven't edited the poll and merged it into a mega thread so it can be easily forgotten yet which seems to be the usual mantra for PR control aka mods over there.

[Vae]

That's true...but they can't do that, because:

 

1) A thread with a poll can't be merged.

 

2) With too many aware onlookers, that tactic would backfire.

 

 

Nice to see TDM smoking NuThief...

Edited March 23, 2014 by Vae

[Springheel]

I don't look up to you anymore.

 

Your personal opinion of someone should be sent in PMs.

[Schatten]

Oh boy, I haven't cringed and laughed so much since I last read a creationism vs science discussion.

 

I was prepared to launch into a full-scale rant involving linguistic constructivism, objectivity, subjectivity and debate etiquette, but pretty much all has been said.

 

To say TDM isn't a game in the context of this poll is a bit like saying "gravity in the context of falling on your face is more like a stumbling aid".

 

Here, I'll offer an easy alternative of putting it without causing a 20 page lolocaust: "I don't enjoy games without continuous storyline as much, so I voted for xy".

 

I was hoping for ZylonBane to make a really fun cameo, but his head probably aspolded after the first two pages and he lies somewhere incapacitated and in dire need for help.