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I was wrong about Islam.


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I used to try to desperately defend Islam as being like "any other religion" on a few occasions when I first joined these forums. I am still a liberal, a secular humanist, but I am becoming more cynical of the leadership of the Democrat Party's reasonings for defending Islam despite it standing for everything they oppose. Islam is not like any other religion, I am finally willing to admit, thanks to Ridvan Aydemir, or Apostate Prophet. Islam is cruel, corrupt, evil, degenerate, perverted to a level that disgusts me. Muhammad wasn't a perfect man, he was a murderous sex fiend who made up bullshit about flying to space on a buraq (donkey with a peacock tail and lady face) and that sperm was produced in the ribs and that the sun sets in a small mud puddle that Alexander the Great found. Islam is evil, it treats women like subsapient sex cattle and murders gays, atheists, apostates, and those brave enough to speak against it. Death to Islam, and fuck that pedophile Muhammad, who married a 6 year old Aisha, molested her for 3 years before vaginally raping her, and beat her until she couldn't breathe when she spoke out against his crazed claims! He gave that poor girl Stockholm Syndrome so she lead his army of rapist bandits into reconquering his lands after his just death of poisoning by his Jewish sex slave, whose father and brother he murdered in front of her! Muhammad was less than pigshit, and I am atheist, but on off-chance Hell exists, Muhammad is drowning in an ocean of boiling pig shit down there for his evil acts during his life that affect the world to this day! He murdered poets who mocked his psychotic and perverted behavior, he hated dogs and killed non-Abrahamic folk mercilessly and put Jews and Christians into brutal second class citizenship, he facilitated a sex slave trade of women!

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For what it's worth... I was in Peace Corps in the 1990s, and lived on a small Pacific Ocean island in Micronesia. In order to survive, the people of Micronesia live very close and very connected

Not sure what is worse tbh, climate change activism or the huge denial syndrome so many people have. At least I can see that something has changed, from my tiny personal perspective, in my country.

Allow me to contradict some of you. The push for renewable energy and the reduction of our ecological/carbon footprint is necessary from a geopolitical POV as well. Where does oil and natural gas

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That's why Atheism is so great. No need to defend or believe any of the 4000 currently existing religions on Earth, or try to pretend none of their sexism, slavery, prejudice, murder, side-picking, self-suffering, punishments by death, and forced faith ultimatums, actually don't exist when all of them are crystal clear about it (just hush hushed and never discussed).

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Dunno about Islam in general, but, what I always find shocking is that there are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of people in islamic countries out on the streets cheering when there's a terror attack killing hundreds or thousands of innocent people. Or... protestin, when another lowlife islamist warlord is killed. Makes me think that it is wrong to say that Islam is not to blame generally for the acts of some "misled apologists".

I doubt anyone would not blame right-wing ideologies for acts of right-wing terror. Right?

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34 minutes ago, Swiggy said:

This is the kind of topic that can either proceed in a civilized manner or crash and burn terribly. Given this is the Internet I feel I know which way it'll go, but who knows.

On the other hand, this is the Dark Mod forum which in my experience tends to be an order of magnitude more civilised than most forums (especially game-related forums which tend to be full of toxic entitled 12-year-olds).

I give it a 50/50 chance.

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@OrbWeaverI'd also like to think these forums are more civilised, which makes the highly undignified original post in this thread stand out all the more like a sore thumb. If members of the community still want to discuss Islam and atheism they could do that in a new thread that starts with a level-headed and well-reasoned opening that doesn't contain crude slurs.

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4 hours ago, Swiggy said:

It does seem clear from just a bit of observation that the more Islamic a country is, the more backwards it is in terms of the rights of certain groups of folks.

To play Devil's Advocate a bit, you can say similar thing in catholic countries in Central and Eastern Europe, especially in rural areas and near borders. Conservatism usually goes hand in hand with any religion it can use.

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Islam like any religion has it's own features and bugs.

Personally I'm against religions. Even religious people as Mahatma Gandhi argued that we must unite all the good from each religion/culture/nation for the greater good. Combine science with religions and one can get closer to truth.

One can also argue that evangelism/religious conversion/proselytism is also a way of spreading truth, but ultimately it's flawed when claiming that only one can have the absolute truth. IMHO that's the way it is, regardless how to label this activity.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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3 hours ago, peter_spy said:

To play Devil's Advocate a bit, you can say similar thing in catholic countries in Central and Eastern Europe, especially in rural areas and near borders. Conservatism usually goes hand in hand with any religion it can use.

Magdalene laundries anyone ?

Women made into slaves, often for the rest of their lives, mainly because they'd had sex, or were thought to have had sex, or were accused of having sex, or refused to have sex

And then a lot of them were sexually abused by the priests, while being physically abused by the nuns, all of which is denied by the priests & nuns of course

The last one was closed in October 1996

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The greatest human fallacy is to assume that man can be saint.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Religions DO NOT exist. Like any ideas they DO NOT exist. Science too is only the practice of the so called scientific method, nothing more or less.

Not "god" (about which we can't say literally nothing by the definition itself of "god" without contradicting ourself), I say the religions as doctrinal structures.

What exist are the men who live with this certain religious ideas and (so called) values linked to religions in the way their feeble minds want or need precisely to live.

 

"Truth" (religious or scientific) is a deception of human mind bound to its (inner) logic to function. And this logic is no "spiritually divine" nor "rationally high", is simply a byproduct of our problem-solving ability as animals. Problem is: since the Sapiens stadium our mind got too much time in its virtual hands 😛

 

An now you can see the consequences of this.

Edited by lowenz
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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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22 hours ago, Kurshok said:

he facilitated a sex slave trade of women!

Well, in the past slavery was......the common everyday reality.

About the past women slavery someone could say it was kinda of convolutioned evolutionary defense against the "real" god, the one who creates every living and dead man since ever: the woman.

It's not a joke, you know the Titans legends right? And who had instructed Zeus to kill Chronos and why?

Edited by lowenz
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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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I'm all about the pagan-way, them sneaksy manfools and their tricksies has nothing for mes.

The new religion, climate activism, is also getting more disturbing by the day. They probably looked at the Catholic Church and thought, we are better at robbing money from the people.

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Reminds me of a sig of a forum member here. "Einen giftigen Trank für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." :)

Pretty much my opinion as well. Religions, and the advocacy of fanatic ideologies have done so many wrongs in human history. The silly thing is that, nowadays, we should know so much better from our own history, and still we fall into the same pattern every time, create hypes and movements, which lead to nothing but separatism, and stupid mob mentality. As Carnage pointed out, environmentalism as the latest example. Don't get me wrong, it's not wrong to care about the environment, but, there's so much stupid crap going on these days that I often want to hold my head in shame that I'm of the same species as such fools.

Edited by chakkman
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I try to stay out of this kind of threads even tho i'm a atheist, IMO talking bad of a religion or pro any religion, is not something TDM forum should encourage, imo we are here to love TDM not hate each other because of politics, religion or lack thereof , again just my opinion. 

I will just tell a experience I add with a muslim girl, nothing sexual... one day I was at a beach with a group of friends and one of my female friends brought a friend with her, she was of darker skin but used a small bikini and add no headscarf, so I didn't thought nothing of it, so we were talking and for some reason, someone started talking about religion, of course being a open atheist I said, I don't like religion but one I don't especially like, is Islam, because of the way they mistreat girls, say they are inferior and make them cover their body, then that girl rapidly exclaimed, but i'm a muslim! And I just stared at her like a dumb fuck not knowing what to say, then she continued "You seem to be a intelligent guy but like many europeans you have a wrong idea of Islam, caused by bad propaganda, not all muslim countries and muslim sectors treat women bad", I could have started a discussion and say "Yes, but some do! And they also explode themselves killing innocent people!" but I decided to stop the conversation there, to not cause a good night to end badly, she got the signal, so we never talked about religion after that and we became friends even tho she knows i'm a atheist.  Just to show that we never know with who we are talking with or if we have the full information about what we are talking about.      

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8 minutes ago, OrbWeaver said:

You know environmentalism has become a religion when its followers literally declare their child prophet a Messiah, parade effigies of her in the streets and put up murals and paintings as if she's the fscking Virgin Mary.

At least is a beneficial religion, nothing bad about caring about the environment and our health in my book. 

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1 hour ago, HMart said:

At least is a beneficial religion, nothing bad about caring about the environment and our health in my book. 

Literally everybody believes that their religion is "beneficial", that's why they believe in it. The people behind the Spanish Inquisition thought they were improving society by eradicating non-believers who would bring about God's punishment.

Destroying the economy, massively increasing the cost of living, inviting the government to manage every aspect of our lives (such as with enforced veganism), brainwashing children to believe they are literally going to die of climate change before they reach their twenties, just so we can show how much we care about polar bears while the developing world continues to spew as much CO2 as they like... isn't particularly beneficial in my book, but YMMV.

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3 hours ago, chakkman said:

Reminds me of a sig of a forum member here. "Einen giftigen Trank für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." :)

Pretty much my opinion as well. Religions, and the advocacy of fanatic ideologies have done so many wrongs in human history. The silly thing is that, nowadays, we should know so much better from our own history, and still we fall into the same pattern every time, create hypes and movements, which lead to nothing but separatism, and stupid mob mentality. As Carnage pointed out, environmentalism as the latest example. Don't get me wrong, it's not wrong to care about the environment, but, there's so much stupid crap going on these days that I often want to hold my head in shame that I'm of the same species as such fools.

This is a "rationalistic" bias at its best.

Why a religion/ideology must NOT be "silly" (or sick) if the average human being is a fool?

Humans are "irreducible" to logic and someone get the best of them using this "feature".

And they are happy (content) this way, cause mankind works in mysterious ways (not very mysterious if you know human psychology).

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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1 hour ago, OrbWeaver said:

Literally everybody believes that their religion is "beneficial", that's why they believe in it. The people behind the Spanish Inquisition thought they were improving society by eradicating non-believers who would bring about God's punishment.

Destroying the economy, massively increasing the cost of living, inviting the government to manage every aspect of our lives (such as with enforced veganism), brainwashing children to believe they are literally going to die of climate change before they reach their twenties, just so we can show how much we care about polar bears while the developing world continues to spew as much CO2 as they like... isn't particularly beneficial in my book, but YMMV.

Problem is: you prefer "environmentalism"  or other religions? Or directly a state pseudotheocracy like Fascism was about?

The answer "I prefer none" isn't compatible with the 90% of people, 'cause people love polarisation "by social design".

Edited by lowenz
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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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3 hours ago, HMart said:

At least is a beneficial religion, nothing bad about caring about the environment and our health in my book. 

It's not the caring, it's the shit that arises from it. The absolutely counterproductive, and often also insincere and selfish shit. I'm from Germany, I know what I'm talking about. :D You really see the bad sides of this false environmentalism here. 

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