Things that could be improved

[Wallace]

Suggestion—remove noise arrows entirely and simply have enemy NPC react to any arrow that hits a surface near them. Logically any arrow hitting a nearby wall would make a sound notworthy enough to investigate. The actual noise that noise arrows make is fairly arbitrary.

[datiswous]

12 minutes ago, Wallace said:

simply have enemy NPC react to any arrow that hits a surface near them

They already do that. Noise arrows just make more noise, so that you can send the arrow to a farther away spot, so the player has time to move past. Also, possibly more ai will hear it. When they're useful depends therefore on the location.

Edited June 14, 2023 by datiswous

[snatcher]

2 hours ago, Wallace said:

Suggestion—remove noise arrows entirely and simply have enemy NPC react to any arrow that hits a surface near them. Logically any arrow hitting a nearby wall would make a sound notworthy enough to investigate. The actual noise that noise arrows make is fairly arbitrary.

I agree in principle but it probably is too late to change anything.

The fact that we can throw small objects with some distance and accuracy could have replaced the need for noise arrows altogether. Throwing objects to distract AI is perhaps the most natural, engaging and satisfying mechanic of the two.

On a side note I would have liked for AI to react more boldly when a torch is put out in front of their face with a noisy, splashing pouch of water

[CountMorillonite]

Suggestion - Visualizing The Stats / Compass

It would be nice if the stats could be set apart from the other list items so that you don't have to scroll through multiple (sometimes many many multiple) items before you arrive at the Stats Listing. Like Toggling the Lantern, it would simply turn on/off without occupying a spot at the bottom right as a "list item" in an ever increasing list of things to scroll through. Same with the Compass. When you toggle it on, it takes over a spot in the bottom right listing.

In other words, I would like the Stats and Compass to always be visible. For example, if I come to a door that needs to be picked open, once I choose the lockpick or key, I lose the Stats and have to scroll through to find them when I'm finished. At least the compass has a special key stroke so I don't have to scroll.

Maybe a "keyboard key" that toggles the Stats and places it elsewhere (bottom left of the screen ?) so that it doesn't interfere with the list items at the bottom right. Ditto Compass. These 2 things should be treated like the Lantern.

For me, I would love to be able to pick a lock and check the stats at the same time, as well as always knowing my orientation north. 

I hope this makes sense. And I'm not optimistic that it would be an easy fix. Just throwing it out there as a suggestion, if it hasn't already been discussed.

Cheers

btw - I use the special Stats Mod (Suspicions, Searches, Sightings, Score) if that matters.

[Daft Mugi]

1 hour ago, CountMorillonite said:

It would be nice if the stats could be set apart from the other list items so that you don't have to scroll through multiple (sometimes many many multiple) items before you arrive at the Stats Listing. Like Toggling the Lantern, it would simply turn on/off without occupying a spot at the bottom right as a "list item" in an ever increasing list of things to scroll through. Same with the Compass. When you toggle it on, it takes over a spot in the bottom right listing.

1 hour ago, CountMorillonite said:

For me, I would love to be able to pick a lock and check the stats at the same time, as well as always knowing my orientation north. 

I'm not sure about adding a dedicated place on the HUD for the compass and stats, but you can at least bind keys to display the stats and compass. For example, add the following to your "DarkmodKeybinds.cfg" or "autocommands.cfg" file:

bind "TAB" "inventory_hotkey 'Loot Info'"  // Stealth Stat
bind "v"   "inventory_hotkey 'Compass'"
bind "l"   "inventory_hotkey ''"           // Clear Inventory

My muscle memory is to press TAB to show the stats once I'm done lock picking.

Also, you can bind keys to select or use inventory items. First, find its name and then bind a key to either "inventory_hotkey" to select it or "inventory_use" to immediately use it without selecting it. For example, to bind a key to  wear/use the x-ray glasses (in either Written in Stone or Iris):

bind "y" "inventory_use 'Magic Glasses'"     // Written in Stone
bind "y" "inventory_use 'Peculiar Lenses'"   // Iris

NOTE: The "autocommands.cfg" file overrides the "DarkmodKeybinds.cfg" each time the game is run.

[CountMorillonite]

Binding a key solves the "scroll forever" problem in that you can quickly bring up the Stats once you've finished whatever it is you're doing (ex picking locks). The Compass already has a keybind , BUT it shows up in the "inventory slot" which means it keeps disappearing when you need to access some other item. 

Back to the Lantern. It's part of the inventory, BUT it doesn't show up in the scroll list, (or inventory slot or whatever the list in the bottom right hand corner is called) which is the way it should be. You turn on the Lantern and it remains on until you turn it off. Meanwhile, the scroll list isn't affected. Why can't that work with the Compass or the Stats.

Maybe that's a "Hud" issue which probably means the fix is too involved or difficult to bother with. Still.....it would be nice not to have to constantly toggle these things every 5 mins. Remember, when you're picking a particularly difficult lock, it's nice to be able to glance at the stats to see if you're raising suspicions.

Thanks Daft Mugi for your input.

 

[wesp5]

13 hours ago, CountMorillonite said:

You turn on the Lantern and it remains on until you turn it off. Meanwhile, the scroll list isn't affected. Why can't that work with the Compass or the Stats.

In case of the Compass it can't work, because it is at the same position as the inventory list. Moving it to the top right of the screen would fix it, if this is possible.

Edited August 21, 2023 by wesp5

[Daft Mugi]

On 2/21/2023 at 5:06 AM, Loginnerer said:

Not sure if intended, but under configurable key bindings - there is "Broadhead", while other arrow types are followed by "Arrow".

In-game inventory still shows "Broadhead arrow", so it's consistent with wording of other arrow types, but not consistent with how it is in controls Settings.

Edit: I see "Noisemaker" is also without "Arrow", but I'm guessing both of these decisions were made to keep Controls screen more tidy by leaving strings approximately the same length? 

Good catch! The code has been changed to show "Broadhead Arrow" and "Noisemaker Arrow".

[Loginnerer]

If I had to nitpick - I don't know if this is mission-specific, but maybe pickup messages could be visible for a bit longer? Anyone else have trouble getting to read them sometimes? Luckily, the inventory is right there in the corner though. But the swift disappearance of some longer messages has bugged me, personally. Repeatedly.

[chakkman]

No issue with that here. And, remember, if you pick up, like, 10 arrows, in short succession, the pickup messages get stacked, and it will take a while until all messages have been displayed...

[taffernicus]

i wish door peephole, footprint trap and "peeking through door" feature to be added into TDM 

[thebigh]

What is the difference between "door peephole" and "peeking through door"? And what is a footprint trap?

[AluminumHaste]

On 9/4/2023 at 5:59 PM, Loginnerer said:

If I had to nitpick - I don't know if this is mission-specific, but maybe pickup messages could be visible for a bit longer? Anyone else have trouble getting to read them sometimes? Luckily, the inventory is right there in the corner though. But the swift disappearance of some longer messages has bugged me, personally. Repeatedly.

I like how Quake 1 does this, any message that appears on screen is also printed to the console. I often miss those messages when in the heat of a arena fight, but I can always open the console and read them again.

[taffernicus]

20 hours ago, thebigh said:

What is the difference between "door peephole" and "peeking through door"? And what is a footprint trap?

ooh my bad . "Peeking through door" is a poor choice of word to describe "poking your head around the door to see what is inside the room" . Ultraviolet(UV) thief detection powder is designed for theft detection and the identification of stolen or altered items but i think it's too advanced for an era in which TDM is taking place.

[snatcher]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:47 AM, chakkman said:

No issue with that here. And, remember, if you pick up, like, 10 arrows, in short succession, the pickup messages get stacked, and it will take a while until all messages have been displayed...

There probably was something like that in the distant past but not anymore. New messages replace old messages instantly.

On 9/4/2023 at 11:59 PM, Loginnerer said:

If I had to nitpick - I don't know if this is mission-specific, but maybe pickup messages could be visible for a bit longer? Anyone else have trouble getting to read them sometimes? Luckily, the inventory is right there in the corner though. But the swift disappearance of some longer messages has bugged me, personally. Repeatedly.

I did notice this long ago and I agree the timing is so on the edge that the final implementation is at times more irritating than useful. Fortunately this can be easily changed:

guis\tdm_inv.gui (time increased by 600ms in this example)

	windowDef InventoryPickUpMessage
	{
		rect		0,420-(20*(S5-1)+32*(S4-1)+14*(S3-1)),640,20*S5
		textalign	1 // center
		text		"gui::InventoryPickUpMessageText"
		font		"fonts/carleton"
		forecolor	1,1,1,0.6
		visible		1
		textscale	0.25*S5

		onTime 0 {
			set "gui::HasInventoryPickUpMessage" "1";
			transition "forecolor" "1 1 1 0" "1 1 1 0.6" 50;
		}

//		onTime 700 {
		onTime 1300 {
			transition "forecolor" "1 1 1 0.6" "1 1 1 0" 500;
		}

//		onTime 1200 {
		onTime 1800 {
			// Signal that we are done here
			set "gui::HasInventoryPickUpMessage" "0";
			set "InventoryPickUpMessage::visible" "0";
		}
	}

[taffernicus]

isn't this guard supposed to drown when walking under water ? or is there a tolerance level that determines whether an npc can drown or not?

 

[Frost_Salamander]

19 minutes ago, taffernicus said:

isn't this guard supposed to drown when walking under water ? or is there a tolerance level that determines whether an npc can drown or not?

 

What is this map?

There are a bunch of things that will determine if the AI will drown or not:

• The water has to be a liquid water entity
• the AI has to have the 'can_drown' spawnarg set to 1 (this is true by default)
• the AI's mouth has to be underwater
• depending on the AI health level, it can take a while for them to drown

[AluminumHaste]

Like the player, he would have to stay under the water for a long time. Maybe fill that fountain with monster clip, or make it shallow enough that his head remains above water

[taffernicus]

On 10/1/2023 at 5:25 PM, Frost_Salamander said:

What is this map?

There are a bunch of things that will determine if the AI will drown or not:

• The water has to be a liquid water entity
• the AI has to have the 'can_drown' spawnarg set to 1 (this is true by default)
• the AI's mouth has to be underwater
• depending on the AI health level, it can take a while for them to drown

hmm i never fiddle around with darkradiant hence technically i don't know bits and pieces of the water asset in the game, i have waited for them to walk underwater at least 1 minutes but the y didn't die at all. They did mutter some words while walking uderwater but it sounded a bit muffled and muted. The FM i played is volta and the stone

[taffernicus]

is there a way to reset frobable item to its original/default position after you drop the item? *edit : without having to rotate the item

 

I imagined a FM where the guards are acquainted of the change of item position. This added a layer of challenge to player besides the existing challenge of forced ghosting

Edited October 5, 2023 by taffernicus
edit for the sake of clarity

[datiswous]

You are posting in the wrong topic.

Edited October 5, 2023 by datiswous

[demagogue]

Bumping this thread. I was trying to parse the code for LibreCoop recently, the multiplayer coop mod for Doom3, or Dhewm3 more exactly. The main alternative is OpenCoop, but I think LibreCoop is more developed. Anyway, it got me thinking how much work would have to go into a coop mod for TDM. It's still my biggest wish item.

The idea I got was one has to basically walk system by system through the code and think about the client and server side of packet swapping. TDM has a lot more and more complicated systems than Doom3, but once you start getting a feel for it, I think the basic system doesn't change that much. In a way it reminded me a bit of a pared down save/load system, what you need to update a game state, except you're streaming it in in real game-time, and you using tricks to fill in gaps to ease the load.

The other thing I noticed is that maps themselves need their scripts tweaked and anything else happening in the world. But I wonder if there's a way to procedurally do that when a map is loading, so one could just use the FM files as released.

It looks like it'd take more than a year or two if one were working steadily through it, although I think one would get efficient at it over time. Like I was noticing, there's a consistent logic to it. But most of all I think it'd be worth it. I really like Thief coop, and I think it'd be great for TDM. I'm just FYI'ing about it now because I was browsing through the other coop mods. Not even soliciting opinions or anything. Just thinking aloud (avisible?) about it.

[datiswous]

Interesting. I didn't know about Doom 3 co-op (I don't know why).

Instead of all being in the same place inside the mission, missions could be designed around locations (in the same map). So you play each your own part, but objectives are shared. So you play different mission objectives around the same global objective. It means also that a player could find a clue when reading a book but another player has to do that objective.

 

So for example:

Shared mission objectives:

 

• Find the ring of Thruth (Church section)  - Player A
• Find information about hidden loot (Thief hideout)  - Player B
• Search for a clue about the hidden passage in the Church (library section)  - Player C

 

So when Player C finds the info in the library section, Player A can find that hidden passage in the church section.

[demagogue]

The Thief2 FM "Mission X" was structured like that.

But from the perspective of someone making or using a multiplayer system, it should be as general as possible so mappers can make whatever set-up they want for their FM, like that, or leave it open to the players to play it however they want.

I think one way for the system to work most basically is have a coop mode (shared objectives, loot, scripts, etc.) and a "thieves vs. guards" mode (separate objectives, tracking loot count & capture count; it should probably be set up like the old Thievery mod) and those are pre-made so a mapper can just turn one on and tweak some things. Those are the two most popular MP cases for this game. But then if they want to, mappers could micromanage the parameters if they want to make their own mode, and the system should facilitate that. That was my thinking.

But I think coop is the big one for us, since all of the FMs will already be set up for that, and that's the way I imagine it'd be most used. So that should come first.

[CountMorillonite]

Suggestion - Improving the Map

If a fan mission has a map, it would be nice if the map wasn't a generalized after-thought, but a more detailed and real-time map showing where you are when you open it.

I know this is asking a lot, and it would probably take a huge chunk of programming time, but it would be nice to know where you are along your travels. Of course, this takes away some of the mystery and suspense of investigating unknown territory, but it doesn't have to be there, just in some circumstances. 

I can't do without GPS in my vehicle, especially when I'm in a different city. I think this reflects on my suggestion.