Fan Mission : Hazard Pay by Kingsal 01/27/22

[kingsal]

I've updated this mission to be compatible with user mods. 
@nbohr1moreSorry to bother you again, but would you mind updated the pk4 for this mission? It should work fine now. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/taqqvw5li22tkrb/hazard.pk4?dl=0
 

[nbohr1more]

1 hour ago, kingsal said:

I've updated this mission to be compatible with user mods. 
@nbohr1moreSorry to bother you again, but would you mind updated the pk4 for this mission? It should work fine now. 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/taqqvw5li22tkrb/hazard.pk4?dl=0
 

Done

[desin]

Latest TDM

updated version of Hasard Pay

While loading anew saved game 

Error: FILE SCRIPT\TDM_STATISTIC_MESSAGE.SCRIPT, LINE 5:

STATISTC_MESSAGE_INIT REDECLARED

any ideas ?

 

 

 

[nbohr1more]

38 minutes ago, desin said:

Latest TDM

updated version of Hasard Pay

While loading anew saved game 

Error: FILE SCRIPT\TDM_STATISTIC_MESSAGE.SCRIPT, LINE 5:

STATISTC_MESSAGE_INIT REDECLARED

any ideas ?

 

 

 

Did you delete the mission folder under darkmod/fms then download the latest version?

 

[Dragofer]

Alternatively, it's possible the update came from the old missions repo (packed) which still has the stealth scroll bug, instead of the new missions repo (unpacked) which has the fixed version. I just downloaded the FM for the first time on this install and it was the correct version.

[datiswous]

I did an update from an installation of Hazzard pay and it worked fine. Maybe @desinloaded a save made in the previous version?

 

Btw. I don't remember this new objective background paper last time I played. The font seems too large for this or something:

 

Original looks fine:

Edited November 12, 2023 by datiswous

[desin]

after the second purge and download it works

[kingsal]

3 hours ago, datiswous said:

I did an update from an installation of Hazzard pay and it worked fine. Maybe @desinloaded a save made in the previous version?

 

Btw. I don't remember this new objective background paper last time I played. The font seems too large for this or something:

 

Original looks fine:

Its a custom background. Its just a bug I never fixed and I don't plan on fixing.

[datiswous]

1 hour ago, kingsal said:

and I don't plan on fixing.

Why? It looks quite bad.

Btw. There is still the crash to desktop under Linux when using the special saveroom option. It does create the save, so after restart I can load from it.

Edited November 12, 2023 by datiswous

[datiswous]

On 11/12/2023 at 9:17 PM, kingsal said:

Its a custom background. Its just a bug I never fixed and I don't plan on fixing.

One way to fix it, is to override the tdm_objectives.gui file (in mission folder) and change the code from windowDef ObjectivesHolder to this:

	windowDef ObjectivesHolder
	{
		#define OBJ_FULL_WIDTH		500
		#define OBJ_FULL_HEIGHT		370
		#define OBJ_SCROLL_KEYBOARD	1

		rect		30, 60, OBJ_FULL_WIDTH, OBJ_FULL_HEIGHT
		//backcolor	0.3,0.3,1,1	//for debugging

		#include "guis/tdm_objectives_core.gui"
	}

Objectiveholder is the objective text, so changing that you can specify how the objectives outline on the background.

It would be nice (in general) if there's a more elegant way than overriding this core file.

[wesp5]

On 11/12/2023 at 1:45 PM, desin said:

Latest TDM

updated version of Hasard Pay

While loading anew saved game 

Error: FILE SCRIPT\TDM_STATISTIC_MESSAGE.SCRIPT, LINE 5:

STATISTC_MESSAGE_INIT REDECLARED

any ideas ?

Are you using the Unofficial Patch? Because the same thing happened to me.

P.S.: The latest mission update fixed it for me too, so everything is fine now :)!

Edited November 14, 2023 by wesp5

[STiFU]

So, I've got a confession to make: Up until recently, I hadn't really played a full FM in quite some time as I only did the occasional playtesting. I am currently trying to catch up and boy did I miss some gems! This FM is one of them and easily one of my all-time favorites. The save-system on expert combined with the incredible athmosphere of your mission created a tension I haven't felt in a Thief-style game in a long, long time. Thank you, thank you, thank you and bravo @kingsal. TDM and its mappers have really come a long way, competing high up there with commercial productions.

Your FM inspired me in two ways:

1. At one point, I died due to my character not jumping off a slope, eventhough I felt like I pressed jump at the right time. I think everybody of us knows this issue and you always have this kind of in the back of your head that you don't jump when the ground is not perfectly even. This failed jump was of course very annoying due to the saving constraints, so I instantly started thinking how we could solve this. There's a technique known primarily from platformers but also from FPS like Doom Eternal, and that technique is called "Coyote Time". It allows the player to jump for some short timespan after leaving a platform. We should maybe explore something similar for TDM, to make jumping off slopes more reliable. We have to be careful to not allow the player to cross further distances this way of course.
2. I loved the save restriction and the tension it create so much, that I want more of it. I started to brainstorm and remembered the optional game mutators from Unreal back in the day. These mutators allowed you to enable extra challenges or modified physics etc. for your game. Coming back to the save restriction, a respective mutator for TDM could be that each savegame costs some resource. Some resource that hurts, like a water arrow or a health potion, to make the player think twice about saving. A mutator like that would honestly be my default play-setting, I think. Other obvious mutators could be "Ghost" (missions fails as soon as the stealth score is non-zero and blackjacking is disabled), "Ironman" (no saves), "Strong Enemies" (enemies hit harder, have more health).

I shall follow up on both of these points soon.

[snatcher]

15 hours ago, STiFU said:

brainstorm

[chakkman]

I know an awesome way to restrict saves, which works in every mission: Just save when and where you want to.

I know, I know, people who want to be restricted need to be restricted by the mission or the game. Unfortunately, that also restricts the people who want to save. So, it's pretty much a lose for one side (most likely the bigger side), instead of a win-win with the save system the game provides.

Edited November 27, 2023 by chakkman

[MirceaKitsune]

1 hour ago, chakkman said:

I know an awesome way to restrict saves, which works in every mission: Just save when and where you want to.

This. Same thing I say when it comes to content moderation on social media, something something about giving people tools to mute what they don't like seeing themselves instead of a corporation doing it for everyone Some difficulty settings should of course be set by the map, but I've also come to feel limiting saves might be a bit too much to have out of the player's control.

I think there is a better idea: A mode the player can toggle, which can disable saving and loading on demand. Something so if you give yourself the challenge of a no save run, you don't forget and press the quicksave / quickload buttons like you're used to all the time. Of course you can just remember or not reload your save or unbind the keys, but a temporary setting like that could be a simple solution that's still fully a player choice.

[Wellingtoncrab]

Folks please let’s not necro a lengthy discussion on the merit of save restrictions in general in Kingsal’s release thread, when it’s well represented elsewhere.

[chakkman]

You're right, of course. Apologies.

[MirceaKitsune]

That is correct, sorry. I might make a separate thread with my suggested solution later, this question seems to come up a lot.

[STiFU]

4 hours ago, snatcher said:

No need to create a new thread, @MirceaKitsune. Snatcher already posted one.

[kingsal]

On 11/27/2023 at 6:08 AM, chakkman said:

I know an awesome way to restrict saves, which works in every mission: Just save when and where you want to.

Well you are in luck! 
Here is a list of other missions with normal save options : https://www.thedarkmod.com/missions/


***
Also for people who want to play this mission and are getting discouraged by the restriction, its only on Expert. I wish there was a way to make it a check box option, but I couldn't find a solution with the time I had. 

@STiFUI like all your suggestions. A modifier would be a really cool solve for this problem.

Edited November 30, 2023 by kingsal

[AluminumHaste]

The mission is great, like all your works. My personal issue was that after dying and losing 30-40 minutes of progress for the third time, I gave up.

[kingsal]

41 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

The mission is great, like all your works. My personal issue was that after dying and losing 30-40 minutes of progress for the third time, I gave up.

Yeah. Maybe I'll update the mission someday if we ever get something like a "mission modifiers" feature. I have some ideas of how I could do it the non-fancy way with items or something. I don't know, but Volta missions will not have this feature

Edited December 1, 2023 by kingsal

[STiFU]

6 hours ago, kingsal said:

Yeah. Maybe I'll update the mission someday if we ever get something like a "mission modifiers" feature. I have some ideas of how I could do it the non-fancy way with items or something. I don't know, but Volta missions will not have this feature

I guess the easiest solution would be to let the save restriction be the only difference between expert and hard.

Just to be clear, the modifiers/mutators I have in mind would apply to all missions for people that seek an extra challenge. In other words, they would not be controlled by the FM author. So this is probably not suitable for your specific problem.

[datiswous]

On 11/27/2023 at 4:41 PM, Wellingtoncrab said:

Folks please let’s not necro a lengthy discussion on the merit of save restrictions in general in Kingsal’s release thread, when it’s well represented elsewhere.

It's actually very useful. Hate a topic? Just derail it quickly by mentioning that a save restriction would be GREAT..

[datiswous]

Also, I think the save restriction currently doesn't work (properly) in Linux (at least 2 users now I think), giving a crash-to-desktop. Would be nice if more Linux users could test and confirm this. Fixed in tdm 2.13

 

On 12/1/2023 at 12:20 AM, kingsal said:

Also for people who want to play this mission and are getting discouraged by the restriction, its only on Expert. I wish there was a way to make it a check box option, but I couldn't find a solution with the time I had.

I think you could add a different starterlocation (2.12) in the gui (but just present it as an expert mode, not a location) and then at the different starter-location (which is positioned close to the standard one), you put a triggerbox (only triggering that starterplayer) with a script attached that makes the necessery changes right at mission start. Making it show up in the difficulty selection means you have to override that core gui file though I guess.

Edited January 16 by datiswous