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Am I the only one that roleplays that hard?


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#1 Wenex

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:19 AM

So from my entire The Dark Mod experience I noticed that I roleplay the main character (be it Garrett or someone else in the FM) harder than I realized.

 

What do I mean by that? Doing things that are "pointless" in terms of the game mechanics or AI mechanics. For example closing all shelfs, chests, doors after being finished exploring/stealing to leave them the way they been before I arrived. As far as I know guards can't tell whenever the shelf or chest was closed before and they do not become suspicious of that, but I close them anyway. Doors on other hands, from my experience I noticed that they do realize the fact that the door was closed, and they do become suspicious and proceed to investigate then close them, but they will not be alterted thus they do not affect the player progress in any way. Anyway I do close all of the doors, unless they were already open; it's pointless from success point of view, but I do it anyway for immersion.

 

Same goes for movement. I know that TDM can still be a little exploited in terms of footstep sounds, and AI cone of view, so I try to be as stealthy as possible where I will not make more noise than it would seem reasonable; or hide in places which in my honest opinion wouldn't be good hiding spots in reality. I'm pointing that out only because I saw countless walkthroughs and lets plays of FMs where people/players doesn't really immerse themselves into the envoirment or simply mission itself (which I'm not saying is wrong, but it's different from what I'm used to do) and because of it it's obvious that I am on completly different level than most.

 

I'm just curious if anyone has the same mindset as I do when playing FMs or if I potentially might be mentally damaged at this point from playing TDM for so long, lol.

 

Cheers.


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#2 Springheel

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:22 PM

I often do things like that too, especially when it comes to placing bodies.
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#3 Wenex

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:40 PM

I often do things like that too, especially when it comes to placing bodies.

 

I do this too but much more rarely than the mentioned shelfs, crates, doors.



#4 Bikerdude

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:58 PM

especially when it comes to placing bodies.

+1



#5 wesp5

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:06 PM

For me most of the time it's knock out everybody and leave chests and shelves open to show that I already was in that room. But then I extinguish every candle and oillight I can for much the same reason and to not be surprised in an area I already have been...



#6 The Dark One

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:33 PM

To an extent. I like leaving things closed and hiding bodies carefully, but that might be more because I assumed you were supposed to do that/my own compulsions.

 

I do sometimes roleplay in specific missions, such as in Rightful Property

 

Spoiler

 

But that doesn't happen terribly often. But I find it interesting when it does, shows that the mission has actually made me care about the people involved.


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Because in mystery novels, the first suspect is almost certainly never the murderer. No matter how much unmovable evidence there is, it will all be smashed in pieces by the wrath of the remaining number of pages of the story.

 

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#7 kingsal

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:55 PM

Role-playing is part of the fun for me!


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#8 V-Man339

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:01 AM

So from my entire The Dark Mod experience I noticed that I roleplay the main character (be it Garrett or someone else in the FM) harder than I realized.

 

What do I mean by that? Doing things that are "pointless" in terms of the game mechanics or AI mechanics. For example closing all shelfs, chests, doors after being finished exploring/stealing to leave them the way they been before I arrived. As far as I know guards can't tell whenever the shelf or chest was closed before and they do not become suspicious of that, but I close them anyway. Doors on other hands, from my experience I noticed that they do realize the fact that the door was closed, and they do become suspicious and proceed to investigate then close them, but they will not be alterted thus they do not affect the player progress in any way. Anyway I do close all of the doors, unless they were already open; it's pointless from success point of view, but I do it anyway for immersion.

 

Same goes for movement. I know that TDM can still be a little exploited in terms of footstep sounds, and AI cone of view, so I try to be as stealthy as possible where I will not make more noise than it would seem reasonable; or hide in places which in my honest opinion wouldn't be good hiding spots in reality. I'm pointing that out only because I saw countless walkthroughs and lets plays of FMs where people/players doesn't really immerse themselves into the envoirment or simply mission itself (which I'm not saying is wrong, but it's different from what I'm used to do) and because of it it's obvious that I am on completly different level than most.

 

I'm just curious if anyone has the same mindset as I do when playing FMs or if I potentially might be mentally damaged at this point from playing TDM for so long, lol.

 

Cheers.

That's just perfectionism and ghosting, for the most part.

People can attest to that in terms of just my video output.


Edited by V-Man339, 12 July 2018 - 04:02 AM.

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.
Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.


#9 chakkman

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:54 AM

I totally do most of those things too. 

 

Closing doors for me has a point though, because you will hear the opening of the door.


Edited by chakkman, 12 July 2018 - 09:55 AM.


#10 Bienie

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 02:57 PM

You might want to try out the "Supreme Ghost" style of play if you're into the role play of TDM. I usually try to play this way, or at least to the best of my ability, for the challenge mostly. The rules for the play style are somewhere over on TTLG, or you can check out Klatremus on YouTube who plays Thief II FM's like that, and explains the rules. It does often require a lot of reloading though, which i find a little immersion-breaking. I think the Iron Man mode requires you to not save at all, among other things which is also invented to raise the challenge level.



#11 Wenex

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:54 PM

I totally do most of those things too. 

 

Closing doors for me has a point though, because you will hear the opening of the door.

 

That's true. Never thought of it as a audio cue whenever guard opened door that is close to you. But then again if you leave it open, then the guard will proceed to close it, giving that audio cue anyway. The only difference being that it takes longer for the guard to open and close the door than simply close.


Edited by Wenex, 12 July 2018 - 07:15 PM.


#12 AluminumHaste

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:16 PM

Watching Let's Players, I do see that a lot of them don't immerse themselves in the game as much as they could, partially because they keep up a monologue to keep viewers interested.

I'll see players try to hide in dumb places, whereas if they were paying attention at all, they would know that they could climb on top of the book case and be completely safe, etc.


I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

#13 V-Man339

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:00 PM

Watching Let's Players, I do see that a lot of them don't immerse themselves in the game as much as they could, partially because they keep up a monologue to keep viewers interested.

I'll see players try to hide in dumb places, whereas if they were paying attention at all, they would know that they could climb on top of the book case and be completely safe, etc.

Let's players are some of the worst to look at unless they're doing commentary in post; they either play the game blind or have to create overreaction-filled suspense based on poor play.

At no point will you find anything truly educational or impressive in a lets play unless they label it a walkthrough or a guide outside of the ocassional fluke


I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.
Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.


#14 stumpy

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:06 PM

I watched someone play system shock 2, then stand in front of that camera that spawns constant monsters and complain that the game was too hard.


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#15 Wallace

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 04:44 PM

Yes I try and ghost all my missions, I dont even like picking stuff up I dont need to. I never frob and dont even purchase unrealistic gadgets like the moss arrows. I stick to real world medieval gear.



#16 Atomica

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 06:57 PM

.


Edited by Atomica, 01 August 2018 - 11:26 PM.


#17 Abusimplea

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:39 PM

On the other hand I tend to play on the hardest difficulty setting since it always has the most objectives or greatest loot requirements, which forces me to actively hunt for loot and pay attention, but also often means limited or zero knockouts allowed.

You also get the most and best placed AI and generally more light - leading to more less easy AI to dispose and more soft shadows to enjoy. Its really a shame that some authors want to prevent us from knocking out all that tempting AI.

Ghosting is not that hard most of the time. But it really becomes annoying if you have to sneak by the same AI multiple times.

 

I do some roleplaying in that i close doors even if nobody is around, try to not kill and mostly dispose bodies in warm and sheltered places where they will not drown, freeze, burn or get eaten by something. I often bring unconcious AI to bed (dropping them on a bed and move them so it looks like they are just sleeping normally. I also don't just steal the usual stuff but get all the food i can too. I like leaving a basket of apple cores behind. ;)

I also immerse into the missions - but more like soldier than a thief. I too blackjack everyone that could be hostile in an area and search it for loot after that. But i also like using player knowledge a lot. There is no reason why AI should not detect the overhead-water-shot-torch-dousing as what it is. I like using bugs like that and hope, they will never get fixed - feeling like a pro every time.

I try to avoid getting wet if it is obvious that there is nothing to find underwater (that is rarely the case though).

I also feel with some People of the virtual world (even if they are only mentioned in readables) but rob everyone blind anyway (because that is what players do *g*).


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#18 Atomica

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 10:37 PM

.


Edited by Atomica, 01 August 2018 - 11:25 PM.


#19 Abusimplea

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 12:42 AM

What about save-scumming? I'm a bit guilty of this, but I suppose true role-playing would be one where a person rolls with whatever happens in a game, whether it's being detected, or a failed blackjack attempt, a missed arrow shot, etc. I'm so bad at save-scumming that I'll try multiple attempts to land a headshot through the grill face-armor of that elite, non blackjack-able guard just so he can be taken down. :)

I am clumsy enough in real life. My avatar in the virtual space does not get caught. I ensure that by rolling back the reality of the virtual worls by quickload. I quicksafe on each and every occasion - sometimes i do not even move between quicksaves. And i am not surprised if i see a hundred or more saves on the final screen. 

True roleplaying would be to ensign into the army and fight in a real war. But beware: There might be no respawn in meat space (some people claim that there is, but i am not ready to try verifying that... yet).

Mishaps happen in meat space and in virtual space - but one big advantage of virtual space is that you can just rollback and try again. And most people that claim to do it without saving just don't realize, that restarting the mission also is a rollback. The mission author did the first save for them.

 

That said: If there would be interesting game play (wich i assume as beeing impossible to implement for the general case) or even just a nice somewhat randomized death scene (definitely possible) after getting caught, i would let AI catch my avatar from time to time. I sometimes waited a bit after screwing up in Styx to get his commentary. But in TDM as it is now, there is fight to death - wich i am really good at (i am a pro at dying by the sword). Or you can just run away and hide in the shadows until everything returns to normal except that your blackjack becomes useless - and i am a blackjack-oriented player.

 

Regarding that almost invincible elite guards: Most of the time i just let them be. Most of the time i have plenty of usables i could kill them with. But i try to not needlessly kill. That lucky bastards should be happy that they are in my virtual world and not yours. ;)

 

Did you ever successfully did a crate knockout? And if yes: Where in wich mission?

I want to try it but did not stumble over a nice training location yet.



#20 wesp5

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 02:42 AM

Or you can just run away and hide in the shadows until everything returns to normal except that your blackjack becomes useless - and i am a blackjack-oriented player.

In that case you might want to try out my TDM Unofficial Patch which removes the annoying immunity-when-alerted-state for all normal guards :)!



#21 Abusimplea

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 03:00 AM

In that case you might want to try out my TDM Unofficial Patch which removes the annoying immunity-when-alerted-state for all normal guards :)!

Hmm, might be worth a try if it does not alter other stuff. And i would definitely use a patch that converts any limited knockout restriction objective into an optional one.



#22 wesp5

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 06:43 AM

Hmm, might be worth a try if it does not alter other stuff. And i would definitely use a patch that converts any limited knockout restriction objective into an optional one.

The latter would mean changing specific missions which the patch does not do. But it also makes it possible to exstinguish more small lamps...



#23 Petike the Taffer

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 04:24 AM

You're not alone with this, I do some pointless stuff as well. For years, I've been playing as a "white hat" gentleman thief in FMs. If I knock someone out, I make sure I leave them in a reasonably comfortable place, or try to avoid leaving them out in the cold. Even moving the knocked out people to a better spot, once I have the chance. I've done these things in all Thief games, so extending that behaviour to TDM felt second nature. If there's a bed nearby, I try to place knocked out people in bed (easier in TDM than in the original games). Sometimes, I even arrange the stuff that I put aside or temporarily borrowed.


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#24 esme

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:51 AM

I do the putting people in bed thing too
 
However if there are undead I like to put those in the beds of the living if it's possible, it's a little thing but it makes me smile
 
One real world thing I do, which my OH finds hilarious, is if I'm looking over a drop or round a corner I lean in my chair so I can get a better view
 
I know it makes no difference, but I can't help myself
 
I regard it as a tribute to authors & devs building a convincing immersive world so I stop thinking I'm driving a moppet around a map & start believing that's me creeping around real streets & rooftops
 
...Not a sign of age induced decrepitude & possible mental illness nooo ... :rolleyes:



#25 chakkman

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 07:55 AM

I'm playing Deus Ex Human Revolution Director's Cut at the moment, and, i'm totally role playing that one... including just walking in the city hubs, unless i really want to get from A to B quickly. And just taking the decisions, which seem to be homogenous with the kind of character i'm playing. And, exploring every single spot on the map. I must say that it is really fun that way. :) Can't understand why people rush through these game worlds, which so invite to explore them.






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