Things that could be improved

[demagogue]

Quote

 

Suggestion - Improving the Map

If a fan mission has a map, it would be nice if the map wasn't a generalized after-thought, but a more detailed and real-time map showing where you are when you open it.

 

 

One way to do that would be to link the map with the location system. A mapper can already make a system to do that with the location scripts. Basically when the player enters a location (or a set of locations), it can trigger a script that switches out the map for one with that location highlighted. That's how Thief used to do it, and I think it's still fitting with the setting.

Having a literal dot moving around the map would be much harder. I'm not sure we could do that without source code support. But It also wouldn't be as fitting to the genre. I'd be happy to see some mappers having a highlighting-map though, just for some interesting variety.

[datiswous]

On 2/28/2024 at 4:52 PM, CountMorillonite said:

If a fan mission has a map, it would be nice if the map wasn't a generalized after-thought, but a more detailed and real-time map showing where you are when you open it.

There are missions that already have this. Check out A house of locked secrets for example.

The feature is called Automap. For info see here:

https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Creating_Automaps

 

Edited March 4 by datiswous

[CountMorillonite]

Well, that's interesting. So the fundamentals of automap already exist, but most mappers choose not to use it. That's a personal choice. Too bad. I guess it doesn't really affect the story telling or the pacing so it's ignored as unnecessary.

[datiswous]

I think mappers specifically don't use it because it removes an element of exploration. Personally I think it's useful in big missions where you can get lost quickly.

Edited March 4 by datiswous

[AluminumHaste]

5 hours ago, CountMorillonite said:

Well, that's interesting. So the fundamentals of automap already exist, but most mappers choose not to use it. That's a personal choice. Too bad. I guess it doesn't really affect the story telling or the pacing so it's ignored as unnecessary.

Not so much that they chose not to use it, but that's it's extra work on top of what's likely to be a monumental amount of work already.

[thebigh]

Also it's not super easy to understand.

[Frost_Salamander]

On 3/4/2024 at 5:59 PM, AluminumHaste said:

Not so much that they chose not to use it, but that's it's extra work on top of what's likely to be a monumental amount of work already.

Yep.  I'd gladly include an automap in my missions....  if someone else were to draw them all for me.

[chakkman]

Gigantic missions like The Painter's Wife would really benefit from automap. I really liked it in the original Thief games. Very helpful.

[datiswous]

On 3/8/2024 at 8:09 PM, Frost_Salamander said:

Yep.  I'd gladly include an automap in my missions....  if someone else were to draw them all for me.

I think only in your last mission it could be useful though. In Plain Sight doesn't have a map I think.

It's interesting, I might give it a try.

It's not actually so hard it seems. You just have to create a layer for every location that you paint over the map, making it semi-transparant in a specific color (in fm A House Of Locked Secrets it's light-blue), or maybe that isn't need, because it could be specified in the gui file I think. Then you have to export all layers as seperate files. Krita has an export command for this and Paintdotnet a plugin.

Then you have to specify all the files with the correct (info-)locations in a gui file.

I wonder if this could be scripted..

Edit: So it's not very difficult, but just a lot of work.

Edited March 11 by datiswous

[datiswous]

1 hour ago, chakkman said:

Gigantic missions like The Painter's Wife would really benefit from automap.

I think that mission actually has an automap if I remember correctly.

[Amadeus]

1 hour ago, chakkman said:

Gigantic missions like The Painter's Wife would really benefit from automap. I really liked it in the original Thief games. Very helpful.

The Painter's Wife does use an automap

[datiswous]

Ws1: North would also be nice to have an automap. Unfortunatelly, it cannot be integrated.

[chakkman]

1 hour ago, Amadeus said:

The Painter's Wife does use an automap

Ah, then my memory failed me.

[datiswous]

So yeah it's indeed a lot of work, but it's cool to get it working at least (mission The Hare in the Snare):

Spoiler

 

Edited March 11 by datiswous

[datiswous]

So when you build a mission and want an automap integrated (at some point) it's best to name your info locations in a way that they are easilly integrated into the automap gui file. Also grouping them together and/or applying them to different layers. This is if not every info location is one specific location on the map and also not every location is visible on the automap (like secret area's for example). Having to figure out what info_locations match which area's on the map afterwards is a lot more work.

 

Btw. I found that this guide shows an entity defenition, but doesn't say you have to add the entity as well. This confused me at first.

Edited March 13 by datiswous

[Rio_Walker]

You know what would be neat? If I could sort mission list. Not Download Mission list (it is sorted)

Sort by size, by date completed, sort by author, grouped by author... by Plot.

I mean... I look at my list right now, there are check marks, going going going and there is a break, because the mission I clicked said "Play this one first" but despite being "technically" connected by the same story, they're not in order on the list. Not labeled as "Nib the Nip" "Nib the Big Nip 2: Electric Avenue" "Big Nib of Nip 3: Here is a little smut for you and me" and so on.

Yes, it's because of individual names, which is great mind you, but I'd like to see in which order story lines should be played. If there is an overarching plot, I mean.
 

 

[wesp5]

I fixed the alphabetic order and the campaign connections in my Unofficial Patch, but I agree that more options here would be great!

[datiswous]

It would be nice if there was a mod that just did that (giving more filter options) and nothing more.

 

You could even combine it with other mods if you want (since 2.12 supports multiple mods).

[wesp5]

4 hours ago, datiswous said:

It would be nice if there was a mod that just did that (giving more filter options) and nothing more.

I think this is being discussed for the core game and maybe some day it is included. For now if you want some order, just download the Unofficial Patch and only copy the fms folder in the archive into your TDM directory to get a better listing!

Edited April 11 by wesp5

[snatcher]

5 hours ago, datiswous said:

It would be nice if there was a mod that just did that (giving more filter options) and nothing more.

You could even combine it with other mods if you want (since 2.12 supports multiple mods).

Right now it cannot be done (the way I think you picture it) but mission details could be made available by the developers for modding ...

In the meantime:

• Use AngelLoader (the one tool for all your mission management needs)
• Use the Unofficial Patch (or parts of)
• Raise your voice here
• Set the language to Italian (ah!)
• Build your own executable

[datiswous]

13 hours ago, snatcher said:

Set the language to Italian (ah!)

Why would that work?

 

14 hours ago, wesp5 said:

copy the fms folder in the archive into your TDM directory

What's in that directory to make it work? Modified missions.tdminfo ?

[wesp5]

1 hour ago, datiswous said:

What's in that directory to make it work? Modified missions.tdminfo ?

No, just modified darkmod.txt files with < and > added to mission name so the A and The sorting doesn't work!

Edited April 12 by wesp5

[TheUnbeholden]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:47 AM, wesp5 said:

I think this is being discussed for the core game and maybe some day it is included. For now if you want some order, just download the Unofficial Patch and only copy the fms folder in the archive into your TDM directory to get a better listing!

Nice one. I'll have to try that out. 

[wesp5]

I just noticed that the sounds of hitting something with the blackjack or the sword seem not to be audible to NPCs. On the other hand hitting something with an arrow does, as fas as I know. Is this intended to avoid punishing the player for e. g. a missed hit during knock out or is this an oversight that should be fixed?

Edited May 13 by wesp5

[snatcher]

4 hours ago, wesp5 said:

I just noticed that the sounds of hitting something with the blackjack or the sword seem not to be audible to NPCs. On the other hand hitting something with an arrow does, as fas as I know. Is this intended to avoid punishing the player for e. g. a missed hit during knock out or is this an oversight that should be fixed?

I would say sound propagation was built mainly thinking of player footsteps and while it works very well for this purpose it is unsuitable for one-off special events.